For Better, Worse, Or Divorce Podcast

In this episode, Jake and Sarah Gilbreath sit down with Jamie Scrimgeour, a renowned stepfamily coach, podcast host, and creator of the online community for stepmoms, “The Kick-Ass Stepmom Project.” Jamie shares her journey from becoming a stepmom and how it led her to be a leading voice in the stepfamily community. Jake, Sarah, and Jamie discuss their experiences living in blended families, strategies for managing complex family dynamics, and fostering a positive family environment.

To learn more about Jamie Scrimgeour’s stepmom community, visit her website or subscribe to her podcast, The KICK-ASS Stepmom Podcast.

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Your hosts have earned a reputation as fierce and effective advocates inside and outside of the courtroom. Both partners are experienced trial attorneys who have been board-certified in family law by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization.

Jake Gilbreath: This is Jake Gilbreath, and today I’m joined by Sarah Gilbreath. You all know from previous episodes, Sarah is both my wife and CEO of the law firm. She’s the mother to my children and also a stepmom, which has to do with our topic today. We’re excited today to be joined by Jamie Scrimgeour, who is the host of The KICK-ASS Stepmom Podcast. She’s a stepmom life coach and a digital content creator as well. She’s a wife, stepmom to three and mother of one. Jamie, welcome and thanks for being here today.

Jamie Scrimgeour: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Jake Gilbreath: And, of course, Sarah, thanks for being here as well. Jamie, I want to jump right in. I told y’all before we started recording that I’m the one that’s not the stepparent on the podcast today, and I know that y’all have a very hard job. So, I wanted to ask y’all some questions. But first, Jamie, I want to talk about the work that you do. What motivated you to start your stepparent community and coaching?

Jamie Scrimgeour: Well, basically there was a need for it. I have been a stepmom for 11 years now since my husband and I first got together. I was 26 years old. We had a 13-year age difference. He had three kids and an ex-wife. It was really interesting because I had worked in child protection. I had worked with so many families who were dealing with co-parenting issues and that stuff. So, having that background I felt like I knew what I was signing up for. But then when I became a stepmom myself I realized it was very different the way that it feels on the inside.

Basically, I had a breakdown. I was looking for support. I didn’t know if I could handle it and I didn’t know what was next for me. When I went to the internet for support I was really, really disappointed. It’s still very true to this day, which is sad, but there’s not a lot of support out there for stepmoms. Moms are really encouraged to keep it real. They’re encouraged to be raw and open about the motherhood experience.

There’s been a huge shift in the conversation and that hasn’t been true for stepmoms. Stepmoms are still very much judged for everything and there’s such a double standard. When I was going through the support online I realized, A, there’s a lack of it and, B, there was a lot of negativity around the stepmom role.

A lot of stepmoms are spending a lot of time on these forums and chats, just talking negatively about the ex and venting all of the things. I was thinking, “Okay, that’s not going to help anything. I’m looking for solutions. How do I improve this situation? How do we do better? How do I feel more in control? How do I find my role in this space?” It was that day where I was like, “Okay, well, I guess I’m going to have to figure this out on my own.”

I really dove into this journey of personal development and communication with my husband. And really opening the conversation with him. That was really huge. Eventually, I just started a blog. I didn’t think anyone would read it. I was home with our daughter at the time and I was on maternity leave. I just started this blog because I was bored and never really thought anyone was going to read it.

Google is a beautiful thing. All of a sudden, I had stepmoms from all over the world reaching out saying, “Wow, I am so happy that you’re saying this. I feel so seen. I’m afraid to say this. I can’t believe you’re feeling the same way as me. I’ve always felt like I was so alone. I have so much guilt for how I’m feeling.” It really did start with just an Instagram page and blog.

Then I started to get stepmoms say to me, “Well, I want to comment on your post, but I’m scared the ex is going to see it. Or I’m scared that my mother-in-law is going to know that I’m struggling. Or I don’t want anyone to know what’s going on.” So, that’s why I ended up starting my membership space, which is the KICK-ASS Stepmom Community. It is a space where you get coaching and support and there’s raw and real conversations. It’s entirely off of social media. Basically just the safe space for stepmoms to go learn tips and strategies. 

I provide that solution-focused support that I was looking for. I bring in experts and then we have a chat room where we really try to keep it real and honest but positive. So, instead of venting and going off on these tangents and these rants it’s more of, “Okay, here’s what’s happening. Here’s how I’m feeling. Okay, what do I do to rectify the situation? How can I improve this situation?” It’s very solution-focused.

Jake Gilbreath: I love that background. That’s such a great story. You mentioned people judging you yourself as a stepmom. It’s interesting that you say that, and Sarah I want to get your thoughts on this also. But from the perspective of the outside looking in, not as a stepparent, it always feels like everybody’s grading your paper. I know Sarah has expressed this before. You’re all constantly looking over your shoulder and thinking, “Am I striking the right balance?” As a family lawyer, I even see it in the courtroom.

Somebody complains about a stepmom being too involved, a stepmom’s not involved enough, a stepmom chimed in and she shouldn’t chime in. Or she should have chimed in here, she should have done this or that. There’s not really a set of rules of how it’s supposed to be other than whenever we also swoop in and criticize what y’all do.

Sarah, what’s your background as a stepmom and your experience and thoughts on that?

Sarah Gilbreath: I agree with everything Jamie said, and I think about her point and how she spends a lot of time in her community talking about being solution-oriented. I do think it’s great for stepparents and everyone to be able to be vulnerable and talk about their experiences and share those, because there’s not a space for that. I think as the outsider, as the stepparent, you often feel like if I complain at all or even just vocalize a situation that I’m in, it means either I don’t want to be here and I’m doing a bad job. Or you knew what you were getting into, you signed up for this. You hear that a lot too.

Giving people that space and that room to talk about what’s going on, but then really shifting the narrative I think is so important and having ownership. I know one thing you talk a lot about is just controlling what goes on in you and in your household and what you want your experience to be within your home. That’s in your family. So, that’s something that really resonates with me.

Back to the point Jake was making, I think that most stepparents feel that pull of do more, but do less. Be smaller, but show up and do everything. Drop your life. You need to do everything for this kid that’s not yours. You’re not a parent, it’s not yours. But also you make sure that you do everything and do it in the right way, except don’t do too much, but do a little bit less but do more. You can feel like, “Whoa, where is my place in this and what role do I have?”

I know one thing you talk a lot about in your community and on your podcast that I want to touch on today is just really identifying within your family structure, within your own stepparent role, what are the boundaries going to be? And having some flexibility with that. It’s okay to say, “I was all in the start and things have changed, and now I need you to pick up this area.”

In my own experience that’s one thing I’ve struggled with is just knowing what my role should and could be. And also balancing what I think to be right and what I think my role to be within our family structure and what the expectation is, not just within our family and extended family, but also society. I think there’s a lot of pressure to pit women against each other, and that’s like the automatic narrative, “Oh, the mom and the stepmom hate each other or shouldn’t get along.”

I think just thinking through all those dynamics is something that you do a really good job of.

Jamie Scrimgeour: Thank you.

Sarah Gilbreath: You’re welcome.

Jake Gilbreath: Jamie what are some of the challenges that either you personally experience or a lot of your followers experience coming into that role as stepmom?

Jamie Scrimgeour: I think it’s just finding your place. The big thing is to know that what works for one step-family is not going to work for another. You have to figure out what’s going to work for you, and that can get really difficult when you have that noise coming in from society. Sarah really touched on this, but you really are damned if you do, and you’re damned if you don’t. You go all in and you’re overstepping. You don’t do enough, then you resent the kids for being around. There’s just this good enough until you’re not feeling.

It’s like a lot of stepmoms feel good enough for the pickup and for the drop-off, for the homework, the shopping and the laundry and for all the things. But then, when those glory moments of parenting come in you need to back up and you need to know your place. As a mom myself, rightfully so. There are things that if Darren and I were to split I would be like, “Okay, that would be my role. Thank you so much.”

There’s a lot of empathy that needs to take place as well. It’s hard and it’s tricky. You’re navigating the ex who may be struggling with accepting that her marriage didn’t work out and grieving the life she thought she’d had. Maybe she even wanted the separation or the divorce, but then she sees this other woman having this happy relationship with her husband. Then she thinks, “Why couldn’t we have that?” There’s a lot of grief. There’s hurt and all the things going on. It’s hard. 

It’s just hard to figure out your place and what works for you and your family. I always come back to these questions and this is what I want stepmoms to ask themselves all the time. I’ve asked myself these questions several times throughout the last 11, 12 years, and my answers change because your stepfamily life is going to change. Where the ex is at is going to change, and where your stepkids are at is going to change. “Is what I’m doing working? Is it working?”

Is your role in discipline working? Is your role with communicating with the ex working or is it not working right now? Is it impacting your ability to show up? Is it impacting your ability to show up for your family? There were times at the very beginning where I was so consumed. You guys know. You have clients who are getting the lawyer’s letters and there’s the allegations. We would get a lawyer’s letter and my husband would be able to go back to work and focus, but I was consumed.

I couldn’t think of anything else. I’m all in. I’m looking up the precedent setting cases. I’m documenting things. I’m telling him what our next steps are. You just get so consumed by it, and that’s the situation. Is what I’m doing working? No. This is impacting my ability to show up right now. I need to take a step back. There’s so many different situations.

Those questions can really steer you in the right direction and help you find your role. That’s what stepmom’s are struggling with. They’re asking, “What is my role here?”

Jake Gilbreath: How does that work? I want to hear both of your perspectives on this. Having that honest conversation with your partner. I see it with Sarah. I’ll just say, I don’t think she minds me sharing. Whenever there’s that struggle and you feel like everybody’s looking over your shoulder. From what I see, it’s hard to come to me. I assume it’s hard to come to your spouse and say, “This sucks. This is not fun. This is what I’m dealing with.” Because you’re trying to please everybody. Really good moms are sitting there trying to please everyone, but it’s what y’all do.

That includes your current spouse also. From his perspective he’s dealing with the ex and he has you, and then I know y’all are trying to make everybody happy. Is that something that you talk about with your listeners, Jamie? Is this how to not just navigate the relationship with the kids and the ex, but also their spouse in dealing with all this?

Jamie Scrimgeour: I actually have a workshop in the membership where I walk stepmoms through just tips and strategies on how to communicate with your partner about your stepfamily stress, because sometimes we forget what our partner’s going through. It’s like you said, they’re balancing the ex. They’re trying to make sure their kids are happy. They have a little bit of divorce guilt, dad guilt or guilt from moving on. A lot of times the fathers have the financial responsibility. They’re dealing with that burden. Then they have the stepmom saying, “Why don’t you stand up for us?”

Something my husband used to say to me is, “Because you don’t want to poke the bear. I bring up this issue. Then it could spiral into so many other issues. We have to pick our battles here.” Communicating is huge. I think often when we go to communicate with our partners about how we’re feeling, we just want them to agree with how we’re feeling. We want them to see our side. We actually just want them to say what we’re saying. That’s the goal.

We always say we want to communicate better, but no,we  just want the other person to agree with what we’re saying. I realized very early on understanding Darren’s perspective was huge. Getting really curious about what’s motivating the other person’s behavior will literally change the game. How are you feeling about this? When your partner responds in a way that you don’t agree with, maybe they don’t want to set some boundaries, or maybe they don’t want to respond.

Maybe they’re letting their kid get away with something that you think there needs to be something done about, just asking why. I just want to understand why you think this is the best course of action. Attempting to understand their perspective sets the tone for them to understand yours as well. A big thing that I have always said in my relationship, and I encourage other stepmoms to say is – I don’t need you to agree with how I’m feeling right now. I just need you to respect that this is how I’m experiencing things. 

We don’t need to see things the exact same way. We just need to respect the other person’s experience. I provide a lot of support about the communication piece because that can be really hard. I have stepmoms say all the time, “My husband doesn’t understand.” Well, your husband is never going to understand what it’s like to be a stepmom. First of all, he’s a man. We all think differently. It’s different. 

We are women.A lot of our value in our society is based on our ability to care for and nurture. When you don’t really know how to care and nurture these kids because you’re not sure what your role is and you’re being told all of these conflicting things, it’s a very difficult thing. Then you feel like an outsider and all the things. Your husband’s never going to understand that and you’re never going to understand exactly how they feel in that situation either.

I think recognizing that and that’s why you have to find your step-mom friends, because your partner can’t give you all of the support in that area.

Sarah Gilbreath:  I agree. One thing I’ve really tried to focus on in my own work is stepping back a little bit and making it less about the ex is doing this or the step-kid is doing this. And to your point, Jamie, really bringing it back to me. Here’s what I’m experiencing. Here’s how the situation is impacting me. Here’s how I feel and here’s what I think would help or would make me feel better or here’s what I need to understand. A lot of the work that is really not making it about all the noise and everything else that’s going on, but really trying to think about within myself, “How is this making me feel and is it really an issue?”

Is it really impacting me, or is it just something that I want to win on? Or I want to make a point and I want to say I told you so? Is it really something that is impacting me and that I have feelings about that I need to express? Or is it just letting it go and saying it doesn’t matter? 

Jamie Scrimgeour: Yeah, you got to check your ego. I look back on some of the emails and my relationship with my husband’s ex has been really interesting. We’ve had wine together. We’ve had mutual friends. We’ve gone out together. We’ve had words. We’ve gotten into arguments over a $15 volleyball. Right now I’m supporting her and some stuff she has going on. There was a time where I didn’t talk to her for a couple years because I needed to disengage. It really has been this ebb and flow relationship based on where we’re all at in our life at that time. You just got to wave the white flag. Silence is the best last word sometimes.

We don’t need to be right. We don’t need to win. Sometimes you just have to be like, “Okay, does this really matter?” I’m sure you guys can look back on things that felt like they really mattered in that moment and then a few years down the road, you’re like, “No, it didn’t. It was my ego. It doesn’t really matter that much.” A big thing that I really focused on with stepmoms is, what is this about for you? We all have our fears, our insecurities, our attachment styles, all the things. And we bring this into our relationships.

For me, with my childhood, I had a bit of an abandonment wound. I had a worthiness wound. I felt like I was never good enough and someone was going to leave me. That’s the story that I’ve gone into everything with. I think it’s really important to do the work on yourself and figure that out. When I come in I’m obviously going to feel like an outsider. I’m obviously going to feel like I’m not wanted or needed and try to compensate for that. When we have these stories we’re looking for proof.

You’re looking for proof to confirm the story that you’re telling yourself. For example, when my husband doesn’t respond to the ex in the way that I think he should, I thought, “I don’t matter. She matters more than me. I’m an outsider.” No, he’s actually trying to protect our family because he doesn’t want this to become a bigger issue than it needs to be. What’s actually happening? 

My husband would have movie nights with the kids in the basement and I always felt super left out. I actually didn’t even want to go to the movie night in the basement either. They watched horror movies. I don’t like horror movies. I didn’t want to go at all. He’d be like, “Okay, I’m going to go watch movies with the kids in the basement,” and I’d feel like an outsider. I’d feel like I didn’t matter and I felt like I didn’t belong.

When I told him this, he said, “You are always welcome to go to the movie. I thought you wanted space. I was trying to give you some alone time so that you can just do you and take care of you. You’re always welcome.” We come up with these assumptions. Assumptions about the ex, assumptions about our partner, all of these things.

Again, that’s why it goes back to that communication piece. We’re all just looking for confirmation on the stories we’re telling ourselves. When you’re telling yourself a lot of really bad stories about the ex, you’re going to find proof.

Jake Gilbreath: In dealing with that dynamic with the ex, is it a spectrum? Or do you have some moms that are just besties with their husband’s ex and then other moms that are just maybe at no fault of their own, just absolute war with the ex? I assume any way the relationship is going to present challenges, but how do you help people navigate those relationships, particularly if it’s a high conflict relationship? It may not be stepmom’s fault at all. When it’s a high conflict relationship, how do you help your followers navigate through that?

Jamie Scrimgeour: I do a lot of work on boundaries and disengaging. Again, going back to those questions that I was saying, is what I’m doing working? Because a lot of stepmoms come in and we have this idea of how things are going to be. For my situation, I really thought we were going to have this really great amazing co-parenting relationship. I wanted the matching jerseys. I wanted all of the things. There’s almost like a grief process that happens when you’re in those high conflict situations where you’re like, “Okay, this person is not going to have this type of relationship with me. This is never going to happen.” So, you’re grieving that.

You really want that. Just accepting what is the truth about your situation. The disengaging piece, I think there’s a lot of content out there for stepmoms on disengaging. There’s a platform and it’s the not-your-kid mentality. So, not your kid, not your problem, not your kid, not your responsibility. I’m like, “Okay, I get it.” But it very much feels like my problem. I’m in the house. I’m dealing with it all. I’m married to this man. This is very much my problem.

I’m not really into that whole just disengaging because I think you can disengage without disconnecting. Again, what’s your answer to that question? Is what I’m doing working? There are times when as a stepmom I’ve been all in. I’ve been doing all the things. I participated in discipline and direction with the kids, and then I got to the point where I was like, “Teenagers, it’s a new ball game.” I took a step back. There was a time I was all in with the ex. Then it wasn’t really working in that season of our lives so I took a step back.

That’s what I really support stepmoms in doing is setting those boundaries. Thinking about those rules of engagement and going back to what is best for my family right now. Not how I think it should be, not how I think I should be treated, or not what everyone else is doing. I’m not going to sit around waiting for them to change.

Because it’s not an effective strategy, it doesn’t work. What is best for my family right now and how can we all feel like our needs are being met in that place. 

Jake Gilbreath: From the outside looking in it seems to me like parenting is a huge challenge. Particularly if you have a blended family and then you have your own children with your partner. You’re raising multiple children, but not all in your household at the same time. Let’s say you have a 50/50. Let’s say you have two children with your current spouse and then you’re stepmom to an older child. Maybe that child’s just in your household 50% of the time, and so the other 50% of the time, he or she’s being parented probably differently than you would parent your kids.

That child’s coming back into your household just being exposed to different styles of parenting, maybe good, maybe bad, maybe in between. Then trying to get that, I guess almost to a synthesis when we all get back together in the same household. I’ve got one child that’s only here half the time and is just raised differently half his time or half her time. What are those challenges like dealing with blending the siblings?

Jamie Scrimgeour: I’ve really just been like, “Reese is going to be raised differently than they are.” She has an age difference with them. My youngest stepson is 17 now, Reese is 9. We don’t run into the age difference thing, or when they’re the same age. For example, we went to McDonald’s the other day and one big trigger with me has always been how much pop the kids were allowed to drink. It just drives me nuts. We went to McDonald’s, and Zach ordered a pop with his McDonald’s meal and Reese had water. She’s my kid and I get to decide.

I know that’s just a silly example, but we’re just really open and honest about they’re not going to be raised the same way. I think a lot of stepmoms have the expectation that it can and will be or should be the same way. You gotta have those open and honest conversations with them when maybe your stepchild is allowed to get away with something and they’re not. They have this mom and dad, and we have this mom and dad here.

This may not feel fair, but welcome to life. It’s not fair. Having really age appropriate conversations about it and understanding there’s going to be that transition period too. When the kids were young and they come back two or three days in, it could still take a little bit of time. Everyone gets into our routine and then you get into the routine and then they leave again.

It’s hard, but having realistic expectations and also empathy for the kids to know, “Man, that’s a lot to be going back and forth all the time as well.” So, just give them a little grace.

Sarah Gilbreath: That’s one thing that we do in our household. I think a lot of people try to minimize the differences in terms of the conversations they’re having and deny them. We don’t want to talk about what goes on in the other house. We don’t want to talk about how our house is different. I think what’s worked for us is saying, “Yeah, you’re right. It is different when you’re at your mom’s. And here’s how it is here and here’s why. It is what it is.” I think that makes it easier for all the kids involved. Our kids are closer in age. They’re all three years apart, so we do see some of those things come up. Your example with McDonald’s resonated with me. I’m that mom too. 

My kids have never seen or know what a soda is. That’s how it’s going to be in my house, period. End of story. My step-kid probably has a different experience at his other household and that’s fine too. Really, being open to your point and talking about those differences. One thing I’ve tried to do with all of our kids is talk about why things can be different. Not just using our lifestyle as an example, but just talking through. I had a conversation with my stepson recently. He was asking about why his mom and dad lived far apart.

We live in the same city but far apart. I told him, “Hey, bud, here’s the thing. When I was a kid, I thought there was only one right answer to a question. And I’ve learned now that I’m an adult, that there can be many right answers to the same question. So, here’s our values and here’s how we made this particular decision. But you can ask your mom. I bet she had a different set of questions that she asked and different answers, and that’s how she made her decision. And they’re both the right answer and they’re both okay.”

Navigating that rather than shying away from it or telling him what I think her answer would be, just saying, “Yes, you’re right. And here’s how we make our decisions too. Here’s our values.” I try to bring everything in our household back to our values and what is important to us as a family. And use that framework to make all the smaller decisions that follow that. That’s how I’ve navigated explaining that to our kids.

Jake Gilbreath: Those are all lots of challenges and lots of really helpful advice from both of y’all. It being a legal family law podcast, let me just chime in briefly. We did have a listener question about stepparents’ rights in the state of Texas. On the issue of how challenging it is to stepparents. The frank answer is stepparents don’t have legal rights except for very, very limited circumstances. There’s recently a Texas Supreme Court case IN RE: C.J.C. Essentially, the issue went up on appeal where unfortunately, the child’s parents are divorced. The mom gets remarried, so there’s a stepdad involved in the child’s life and then substance involved in the child’s life.

The biological mom passes away in a car accident and then stepdad’s there with this child that is his child, stepchild, but is his child as well that’s been in his life. What legal standing does he have? The unfortunate answer of the Supreme Court in that situation is that he didn’t. Ultimately the parent gets to make the decision. The surviving parent being dad in that situation, makes the decision about whether or not stepdad’s going to continue to have a role. Of course it would be the same if the genders were reversed. 

There are very limited circumstances where a non-parent, particularly a stepparent would have any type of standing. A lot of them would have to do it if they raise the child by themselves for a period of time. In most situations they are sitting there left without a legal recourse. On top of all the challenges I’m sure there’s that fear of what happens. What happens if my spouse passes away? What happens if he and I get divorced?

Not to just pile on the other challenges that y’all deal with, but it is something that we get a lot of legal questions on. There’s not a legal solution a lot of times. It’s just a family dynamic solution to it. 

Jamie, there’s a lot of resources out there that come from you. Can you tell us all how it’s best to find you? What resources would you point our listeners to if they wanted to follow you. Where to find the podcast and those things?

Jamie Scrimgeour: You can find the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, the KICK-ASS Stepmom Podcast.  I also have my membership, which is the KICK-ASS Stepmom Community and all of my resources over on jamiescrimgeour.com. When I was trying to create the podcast, the membership and all that, I was thinking, “What am I going to name this thing?” People hear it and think, “Oh, kickass stepmom. She thinks she’s like a kickass stepmom.” No, I’m a very human person here. We’re all just doing the best we can with what we have. 

I thought, “Okay, what do I want for the people who follow me? What do I want for the stepmoms in my community and what do I want for myself?” I want to live a kickass life. That’s what I want, and I want to learn how to thrive amongst the tough stuff. That’s what my mission is. 

I’m not going to change your stepfamily situation. I’m not going to change the ex, but I want to just teach you some tips and strategies to help you feel like you have more control and are living an aligned life amongst all of that tough stuff. That’s where the KICK-ASS Stepmom piece comes from. 

Jake Gilbreath: I love it. Those are great resources and we appreciate you sharing that with us today. We hope that all our listeners find you online and listen to the podcast. I know we will be. That’s what we have for today. Again, Jamie we can’t thank you enough for taking the time to join us.

Jamie Scrimgeour: Thank you.

Jake Gilbreath: We’re going to put links to Jamie’s website, Instagram, and podcast in our podcast description if you’d like to check out everything she has to offer. For us, as y’all know, we love feedback and reviews, particularly when it helps us improve the podcast. You can find us on our website. You can reach out to us at podcast@waltersgilbreath.com. Thanks everybody for listening and we’ll see y’all next time.

For information about the topics covered in today’s episode and more, you can visit our website at waltersgilbreath.com. Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of For Better, Worse, or Divorce, where we post new episodes every first and third Wednesday. Do you have a topic you want discussed or a question for our hosts? Email us at podcast@waltersgilbreath.com. Thanks for listening. Until next time.