For Better, Worse, Or Divorce Podcast

For the third episode in our “Hollywood & Family Law“ series, Brian Walters, Jake Gilbreath, and the firm’s Marketing Director Katy Justice dive into the Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez divorce and discuss how celebrities and high-net-worth couples keep their divorces out of the public light as well as our firm’s experience working with repeat clients, whether it be a second divorce or another type of case.

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Your hosts have earned a reputation as fierce and effective advocates inside and outside of the courtroom. Our partners are experienced trial attorneys who’ve been board-certified in family law by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization.

Jake Gilbreath: Thanks for tuning into For Better, Worse, or Divorce Podcast. This is the podcast where we provide you tips and insight on how to manage and navigate a divorce and child custody situation in the state of Texas. I’m Jake Gilbreath and today I’m with my partner, Brian Walters. We’re happy that we’re also joined by the firm’s Marketing Director Katy Justice, who’s been with us before on some episodes. This is for our quarterly series on pop culture, celebrity news, and how it ties into our family law cases and what we can learn from them.

For this episode, we’re going to be talking about the semi-recent divorce news of Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck, who after being married just about a year, are going through a divorce. We’re also going to discuss and tie that into how high net worth celebrities and divorces try to keep things out of the public light. As well as touch on our own experiences working with repeat clients, like this couple could be. We will also discuss how for high net worth divorces and public divorces we try our best and work with the other side on keeping it out of the public light, and strategies of how we can do that.

With that I’m going to turn it over to Katy who is our pop culture expert amongst the three of us. It’s not me or Brian, we listen to her. Katy, tell us what’s going on.

Katy Justice: I don’t know, Jake. I feel like you secretly do know some stuff but you hide it.

I am citing The Cut, Harper’s Bazaar, and People Magazine. To give you a backstory, Jennifer and Ben were the it couple in the early 2000s after meeting on set on the movie Gigli, I hope I said that right, in 2001. Ben made an appearance on her Jenny From the Block music video in 2002, and also got engaged later that year. In September 2003, they postponed their wedding and ultimately broke up in January 2004.

They both went on to have separate relationships afterwards. J-Lo was married to Marc Anthony. They had several kids together. She and him divorced and she had a public relationship with Alex Rodriguez, the baseball player afterwards. Ben married Jennifer Garner as well and had three kids. They divorced in 2018.

In 2021, Bennifer, as we like to call it, reunited after J-Lo ended her engagement with A-Rod. They were engaged again in April 2022. Then they married that July, and had a big second wedding in August. Separation rumors started in May of this year, 2024, and J-Lo filed for divorce in August 2024.

According to the divorce petition, it listed April as separation. She wrote assets were, “unknown.” According to California state law, the only income earned or the assets acquired during their two-year union would be considered property and subject to division. They have a $68 million Beverly Hills mansion together. They both had separate films and a documentary during the time of marriage, and they have Dunkin’ Donuts commercials. They had no prenup. The couple had been going through mediation to keep it less formal. A faster alternative to traditional divorce, according to those articles.

Jake Gilbreath: Didn’t she file pro se too, Katy, or did I imagine that?

Katy Justice: I think I did see pro se, yeah.

Jake Gilbreath: Yeah. That’s wild. Somebody that’s that famous, as far as I know, one of the most famous pop singers out there.

Katy Justice: It’s not her first divorce though, so maybe she knew what she was doing.

Jake Gilbreath: I assume. I don’t know, but I assume she has a lawyer by now when they’re going through the mediation. Thanks. That’s a great background. See, I know some of it.

Brian Walters: Well, I didn’t know how you pronounced this movie’s name. I’ve been saying Gigli for the whole time, for 23 years. Now I know it’s Gigli, the French pronunciation. Who knew? I never saw the movie either.

Jake Gilbreath: I didn’t know it was French. Brian and I should know because we’re old enough for that. I don’t know if Katy’s old enough to be familiar with that movie.

Katy Justice: I think I remember having an insane low score on Rotten Tomatoes. I’m actually going to check.

Brian Walters: I’ve never seen it. But I remember that it is famously a bad movie. That is what I recall about it.

Katy Justice: 6% on Rotten Tomatoes. Six.

Jake Gilbreath: Ah, yeah.

Brian Walters: That’s hard to do.

Jake Gilbreath: Well, the first thing to talk about is one, you have the dynamic of returning clients in the sense that they’ve been through a divorce and they’re coming back to us. We certainly see that in the firm. Then sometimes you have the situation where people have been divorced, remarried, and then those same people come back and they’re going through a divorce again. Two different dynamics. Something intertwined, but sometimes there’s some different issues there obviously.

First of all, Brian, have you had the situation where you have a client that’s come to you and maybe you’ve done the prior divorce, maybe not? But they were divorced from an individual, remarried, and then now they’re going through a divorce again. Have you seen that? What does that mean legally?

Brian Walters: I have. Even a third time once. It’s pretty rare. I don’t know what the percentages are. I figure when somebody files for divorce, I always say that’s probably about 90, 95 percent chance they’re going to go through with it. Some people do reconcile, I think we’ve talked about that previously. But sometimes, people get divorced, the grass wasn’t greener on the other side, and they do get back together. Technically under the law, I’m just ignoring kids’ stuff, it’s two totally different events. If you’re married and divorced, and you get married a second time and you get divorced a second time, it’s like the first divorce and marriage never existed. We don’t go back to the very first one, or something along those lines. In that way, it’s treated just like any other divorce.

Generally, those cases do tend to have some additional complexities. Sometimes people get remarried so quickly that they haven’t actually gone through the process of maybe deeding over a house, or actually dividing some type of property. Sometimes you have to go back and fix that up, too.

Jake Gilbreath: I’ve seen particularly that situation, Brian, where somebody gets a divorce and then maybe they go through a judge divorce for them. Then they decide before they’ve even moved out or sell a house, or whatever, they get back together. They’re not thinking that really, it’s a restart. Because you’re getting married as if you’re single, so let’s say the wife in the divorce gets the house. They never move out, they end up reconciling. Then they get back together, the husband’s the whole time thinking, “Well, this is our house. It’s always been our house, and we never separated, we never actually logistically changed the deed or anything.” Technically, the second that that divorce is granted, the house is her separate property and we restart the clock.

Or I’ve seen the situation, I’ve had this happen I think just once, maybe twice in my career. Where the parties went to mediation, they signed the mediated settlement agreement which included a partition language which most mediated settlement agreements do. It says not only is this resolving the divorce, but it’s partitioning the property at this point. Then the lawyers, me included, never heard from them again after mediation. Of course, we reached out and everything, and they just ghosted us, which I get emotionally why. You’re reconciling, you don’t want to be talking about the divorce that you went through. They never talked to their lawyers, and then they came back a few years later.

In their mind, “Well, we never got divorced. Yeah, we signed the mediated settlement agreement, but we never got divorced so everything remains as is.” But that mediated settlement agreement was a partition of their property at that time so we had to go back and look at that and recalculate in figuring out the community estate.

It can provide interesting situations. Like you said, Brian, it’s rare that we see people get divorced, then remarried, and come back with a divorce. But families are interesting, and it’s not always cookie-cutter. Nothing wrong with trying to make it work, we see a lot of people do that. It’s just sometimes it doesn’t work out on the second go around. Or the third go around, like you were saying, Brian.

Then, Brian, what about for clients that come to you, and it’s not the same person, but you’ve represented them in the first divorce and then now they’re back for the second, or the third, or something like that? Or multiple child custody cases, maybe one with one parent, another with another. What kind of emotional dynamic does that add to your representation if you’re seeing somebody that maybe it’s five years ago that you represented the divorce? Now they’re remarried, and then now they’re coming back to you for divorce number two. What’s that like?

Brian Walters: Actually, I think they are some of the easier clients to deal with, and some of the best working relationships I have with clients simply because we worked together before. They know the drill. I’ve dealt with them, so I know that they may have this personality characteristic or that one. It’s a good sign when they come back to us. It’s a frequent thing of course, because that means they like us, they think we did a good job. We were fair with them, we were good advocates for them. I’ve typically had good relationships with those folks. I don’t know the statistics, Katy probably does, but it’s a pretty significant part of our practice. Like you said, either a second divorce with a different person, or very frequently maybe we handled the divorce and then there’s an issue with the child custody issues four years later and they’re back in court, or at least want to talk to us about getting back into court. So yeah, I’ve definitely found those to be common and productive.

Jake Gilbreath: We’re like doctors. In an ideal world, we love working with you, but in an ideal world we’re not needed. But oftentimes, we are. I’ve had the same experience. People do tend to come back and use us because we’re familiar with one another. But also because of the good experience, they understand how much we value communication, working with our clients, and collaborating with them.

If somebody comes back to me and it’s been a few years, I always do try to start from the perspective of talking through the emotional side of being here a second time. I think some clients, not all but some clients sometimes feel almost like a failure. It’s like, “I was here for my first marriage, it didn’t work out. Now I’m here for a second marriage working out.” Sometimes that’s just something that they want to talk through and get out, because I get that. That’s a part of what we do is help people process this and everything. I’ve had this conversation with several clients. A second marriage doesn’t work out, a third marriage doesn’t work out, that doesn’t make you a failure or a bad person. It doesn’t mean that you’re not going to be remarried someday or in a healthy relationship, whether it’s a marriage or not, moving out. It just means that this time did not work out and we have to deal with it. That doesn’t make you a bad person, and it doesn’t mean that there’s no hope moving forward in the future.

A really close friend of mine, he’s on marriage number four. He’s very, very happy in his relationship and it’s working out really well. But he and I have had those conversations, where divorce number two, he felt like a failure. Divorce number three, he felt like a failure. He’s really, really happy right now in his relationship. I think it’s something that needs to be talked about when people come back. We don’t want them to feel embarrassed, feel like we’re judging, or feel like they failed at anything. They’re back and we’re here to help.

Brian Walters: Yeah, I agree.

Jake Gilbreath: Katy mentioned in the article about Jennifer and Ben going through mediation. With that, combined with this idea of maybe trying to keep a high profile divorce or a high net worth divorce out of the public spotlight. Brian, what are various ways of doing that? Obviously, going to mediation and trying to resolve things right away helps. What are the different things if somebody comes to you and they are concerned about the divorce being out in the public eye, people finding out about what’s going on? What are different types of things that you can offer them to help with that aspect of the divorce?

Brian Walters: Yeah. What’s the public eye? In Texas at least, your divorce fillings are generally publicly available. Some of them are easier to get than others. Some of them you can just log in, anybody can, and just download pretty much anything. They’ll redact, cross out, or hide things like the name of a child or social security numbers, and that type of thing. But generally, the broad outline of things are pretty clear. Sometimes it’s a little harder. Sometimes you actually have to go up to the clerk and get it, but it’s still available.

Number one, you want to try to file as little as possible if you want to keep this quiet. You’ve got to file some type of initial document called an original petition, and then your spouse has to file at least some kind of response. But that can be really plain vanilla. For example, the fault and the breakup of the marriage and why did the marriage end. The most common reason is called insupportability, or no-fault divorce.

I’ve advised lots of clients, I know maybe there was cheating, maybe someone was really mean to the other person or something like that. But if you’re trying to keep it from blowing up and being a big mess, maybe you start out by putting insupportability, it didn’t work out. Then only if the other side escalates, or things get difficult, or we get close to file then we do accuse the person in public, in writing of cheating on you or being mean, or what’s called cruel treatment. Because that’s going to trigger the other person. “Oh my gosh, they accused me of being cruel.” Basically, it doesn’t mean physically abusive, but it can. You see that. What’s the response of the person who’s accused of it? They’re going to want to retaliate, they’re going to want to file something that’s aggressive towards you. Now it’s a public record. Now your kids, your coworkers, your employers, your grandkids can all read about how you cheated on your wife, and implied beat her, or something. You might want to avoid that type of thing. Mediation is of course the other way to resolve it.

The other option for keeping things out of the public eye is to try to settle your case. The most common way to do that is through mediation. It’s where you and your lawyer go and have a mediator who’s generally a retired judge, it doesn’t have to be, and you try to work out your differences between you. Because if you go to court, have a trial, and have a judge decide all of the things you guys can’t agree on, then A, there’s going to be a lot more filings, so there’s going to be a lot more public. Then there’s going to be generally a record out there somewhere of the trial proceedings. Now that’s not necessarily published to the public. But A, trials are open to the public, number one. And number two, if there is a transcript and somebody orders it, it could appear 10 years later, or 5 years later, or in whatever circumstances.

Minimal, low conflict, low accusation filings combined with a settlement. Usually mediations are the quickest and best way to get your divorce done in a low-key manner and keep it out of the public eye, even if you’re not a celebrity.

Jake Gilbreath: Yeah, I agree with that 100%. It needs to be a conversation that you have, really in all divorce, but particularly ones with high profile clients. There should be a discussion at the beginning.

Another discussion point is you can actually seal the file. It would have to be done by agreement. There’s a rule, 76A in the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure, that allows for it to be sealed. People can see that a divorce was filed, but they can’t do that process like Brian was talking about, where you can go and click and download the pleadings. 

But that’s a discussion that has to be had, because it may be strategically best not to seal it. Not agree to seal it if the other side is concerned about bad behavior on their part being in the public eye, or they’re going to approach the divorce in a way that they would be embarrassed about and they want to keep that in the public eye. There may be a reason not to agree to seal it in a sense. Because for some people that keeps them in check. They’re not going to be as unreasonable, take ridiculous positions, or file ridiculous filings if they know that anybody in the public can go get it. It needs to be a discussion both ways.

I will say, I think a related topic when we talk about kids being part of filings is that a lot of times there is a discussion about keeping things out of the public eye when we’re dealing with sensitive issues about children. There have been obviously horrible situations where we represent clients and you’re having to file an affidavit due to an emergency that comes up with a child where maybe you’re asking for a protective order for the child, or a restraining order. Part of the affidavit is going to be talking about what’s going on with this child. I’ve had to unfortunately attach pictures of bruises on children when doing filings which are public. A lot of times you have to file those, obviously we have to protect children first. Usually there’s a pretty quick discussion of, “Hey, this got filed. Let’s get it sealed pretty quickly though,” so that somebody can just download this pretty sensitive information about a child. Sensitive medical information about children, obviously we try to keep that.

I guess the last thing to do is to close the loop on this topic. We did this obviously particularly during the height of the pandemic, but we still have virtual hearings that happen. A lot of courts still broadcast their virtual hearings on YouTube. That was always a discussion point that we had to have more during the height of the pandemic but still have to have if something’s broadcast on YouTube. That is anybody can log on, and they’re not supposed to record but you can, obviously people do and can record even if they’re given warnings that they’re not supposed to.

It’s important for the practitioners to remember, one, on a virtual hearing that’s being streamed, you need to be careful about what you’re talking about. You don’t want to just publish an exhibit, for example with somebody’s social security number on it. But particularly when we’re talking about sensitive medical information, or something about a child that’s sensitive. For teenage kids, we have to worry about their classmates watching on YouTube. There’s a procedure to talk to the judge about taking off the live stream, which courts are usually pretty willing to do in my experience. Particularly when we’re talking about kids and really highly sensitive information.

It really comes back to what Brian was saying, the best way of keeping it out of the public eye is to low-key filings, and as quickly as you can, get to mediation and get it resolved. If you can’t, you can’t. Then there needs to be a discussion about what we do moving forward, as far as this being an open process. Those are definitely some strategies that we talk about with our clients. I’m sure Jennifer and Ben have had those discussions with their respective lawyers, and are probably both pretty motivated to try to keep it out of the public eye.

That was great. That was a great article, Katy. Thanks for sharing it. Helpful to tie that into situations that we see in our practice. Let’s wrap up with that for today. This was our third episode in our ongoing pop culture series. Be on the lookout for more episodes like this. If there’s a topic you want to discuss, as always, please email us at podcast@waltersgilbreath.com. We love all feedback. We particularly love it when y’all suggest topics and have suggestions for the podcast. I’m Jake Gilbreath. I’m joined by Brian Walters and Katy Justice. Thank y’all for listening.

For information about the topics covered in today’s episode and more, you can visit our website at waltersgilbreath.com. Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of For Better, Worse, or Divorce, where we post new episodes every first and third Wednesday.

Do you have a topic you want to be discussed or a question for our hosts? Email us at podcast@waltersgilbreath.com. Thanks for listening. Until next time.