For Better, Worse, Or Divorce Podcast

In this episode, Jake Gilbreath sits down with a previous client, Mikal, to discuss his divorce journey and experience on the other side. Mikal, now a single father and business owner, talks about his experience working with Jake and the Walters Gilbreath firm, his advice for anyone going through a similar experience, and his life after divorce.

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• Your hosts have earned a reputation as fierce and effective advocates inside and outside of the courtroom. Both partners are experienced trial attorneys who have been board-certified in family law, by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization.
• Jake Gilbreath: All right, well thanks for tuning in to For Better, Worse, or Divorce podcast, where we provide you tips and insight of how to navigate divorce and child custody situations. This is Jake Gilbreath, I’m one of the managing partners of Walters Gilbreath. Today we’re joined by a good friend of mine and our prior client. He is here to share his experience going through the divorce process, working with our firm, and even though it was years ago we’ve stayed friends over the years. We found that our listeners have found firsthand accounts of real client experience be a valuable resource. So, without further ado, sir, like I say in all of my courtroom direct examination, tell us your name and tell us what you do for work.
• Mikal Abdullah: First of all, thanks for having me on, Jake, I really appreciate it. Any chance I get the opportunity to sing the high praises of what you do, I love to take it. My name’s Mikal Abdullah and I own and operate all Aces Jiu Jitsu Clubs across Texas, and a few other small marketing agencies, stuff like that.  
• Jake Gilbreath: So, let’s talk about that first before we sort of get into everything. Because I do want to sort of talk about how we met in a bit. I guess we’ve known each other since 2014, or was it 2015?
• Mikal Abdullah: I think it was 2014.
• Jake Gilbreath: I am trying to remember how old our kids were. They were both the same age and babies, right? 
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah, yeah they were.
• Jake Gilbreath: Well, before we do that tell us about your work. I’ve followed your business over the years. You and I love talking about business, growing business, customer service and satisfaction, and everything. I think when you and I met you had one studio. 
• Mikal Abdullah: Yes.
• Jake Gilbreath: How’d you go from that to where you’re at right now? I guess tell us about the studios, what y’all do and how you got to where you’re at right now.
• Mikal Abdullah: At the time we first met we had our first club and now we have six across Texas. We are in the Austin area, the DFW area, and Houston area. So, we’ve experienced a good bit of growth since then. It can be naturally complicated. Thankfully everything went well, but I found myself as a full-time single dad running the company. But honestly it turned out great, some extra motivation.  
• Jake Gilbreath: Well, let’s talk about back when you and I met. I’m trying to remember timeline. I know I represented you in your divorce, but I think you and I were going through a divorce around the same time with our kids being the same age. So, I guess talk to me as you remember it. I’ll sort of say from my perspective but talk about kind of how we found each other and what happened.  
• Mikal Abdullah: It was a really fortunate situation, a fortunate part of an unfortunate situation. So, at the time my former wife had threatened to harm our child. I had recorded it, with her knowledge of course, in the attempts to show her that this was kind of a bananas situation. Then she took off with our daughter. It was kind of a complicated situation. We had to first prove out several things here and then had to win rights both in this state and another state. All while at the same time running the business. It was a really interesting time, but I don’t want to ramble too much on about it. 
• Jake Gilbreath: I know it’s in the past and everything but what I remember most about us meeting is – I think I met you and your mom that morning as I recall it. I may have the times a little bit wrong, but I remember you calling because this happened. Your former wife took off with the baby which was very scary. I can’t imagine what it was like for you, even as a practitioner it was scary for me. I remember it was close to after hours or maybe it was even after hours where you called the office and I had court the next morning. I think it was court or maybe I had to drive to Williamson County, it was something like that. And I was like, “I hear you buddy, but I can’t meet with you unless it’s like at 6:00 AM in the morning”. And you said, “all right, I’ll be there.”  
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah.
• Jake Gilbreath: And sure enough, there were you with your mom at 6:00 AM in the morning and you sort of told me the story. It was scary, right?
• Mikal Abdullah: It was super scary. Her saying that she was going to end our kid’s life and then taking off. And you don’t know if your kid’s alive or not, was really super worrying. I got to thank you again for making that meeting happen. A mutual friend of ours had recommended you.  
• Jake Gilbreath: Oh, that’s how we met.
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah, I think somebody said, “this is the guy you need to talk to”. I reached out and you made some time available for me and then we went from there.
• Jake Gilbreath: We’ve talked about how complicated interstate stuff can be on the podcast before. In your case because the mom did pop up with your kiddo in a different state and then child stuff in that different state. I mean this is well before Covid and Zoom and all this sort of stuff. So, you got litigation going on in that state and at the time the Texas judge had signed every single order known to mankind to get the baby back. And then you’re having to get a lawyer in that state we’re dealing with it. I think it was a month or two, it provided some relief when we knew where she was and where the child was. But as I recall, it was still a month or two before we actually got your daughter back to Texas.   
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah, thereabouts. It was about a month before we even found where they were and then like another month on top of that to actually get my daughter back. 
• Jake Gilbreath: I don’t want to sort of dig through all the details and everything and I don’t want to relive it. Like I said, for me it was one of the scarier cases that I’ve dealt with, and I can’t imagine what it was like for a dad. There were some weird hiccups with a particular judge that we got. 
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah.
• Jake Gilbreath: Your child was with you for quite some time and as I recall, once we got her back into Texas six or eight months went by with not even hearing from mom. Then mom sort of pops up and there was some kind of weird litigation over that, but then it worked out in Texas. I’m guessing our kids would’ve been a year, 18 months, or maybe two years by the time it’s all over, is that right?   
• Mikal Abdullah: I think that’s about right. I think that’s about the right timeline. 
• Jake Gilbreath: Yeah, it was before they turned two. I remember, again, it’s hard because I’m not using your kiddo’s name and everything. I always want to refer to her by name. I just remember her coming to my son’s second birthday party. Y’all came and your daughter’s always been a little bit bigger than my son and she gave him the biggest hug, I’m sure she gets this from her dad.  And she almost knocked him over, maybe she did take him to the ground just a little bit there.   
• Mikal Abdullah: I remember that moment.
• Jake Gilbreath: So, they’ve sort of stayed friends over the years. What grade is she in now? My kid’s at nine years old and third grade. 
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah, she’s in homeschool. I think she’s in that cusp between fourth, fifth grade right now.
• Jake Gilbreath: Well, I talked about this or alluded to this earlier on. You’re not totally a single dad, right? Mom still has a role in your daughter’s life, but the responsibility’s been largely on you.  
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah.
• Jake Gilbreath: I guess first of all, have you since remarried?
• Mikal Abdullah: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I try to tell this to other guys who go through divorce, that there is light on the other side. With some good personal self-work. Now I have a wonderful marriage to an awesome woman and more kids living my best life as far as that’s concerned.  
• Jake Gilbreath: No kidding, you and I both went through our divorce, now we’re raising our kids. Then you and I both, let’s be real, we married up substantially. 
• Mikal Abdullah: I would agree.
• Jake Gilbreath: But we’re very lucky with how things have worked out. It’s so funny the parallels, right? Because you and I both sort of grown in business over the years.
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah.
• Jake Gilbreath: We both have more kids, remarried. I think you and I just sort of see life the same way. 
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah.
• Jake Gilbreath: What has it been like to grow your business? I mean it’s not easy, you’re all over the state. As I understand it y’all have made waves about going outside of Texas too. So, what has that been like? Raising a kiddo, getting remarried, having more kids, and building a business?  
• Mikal Abdullah: It has been busy. We have people trying to get us to come out of the state. And we’re telling them when we hit certain goals for our expansions here in the state, then we will. But that does include traveling around and stuff like that. I feel real fortunate that I’ve been able to find ways to make it work throughout each of those different stages. Sometimes people say, “Man, that must be so hard.” But honestly when I feel inspired to do it I will. If there’s a will, there’s a way. I’d have meetings in New York and then kind of be like, “I guess we’re buying two tickets.” Then I travel around bringing family with me. My clubs are Brazilian jiu-jitsu and MMA clubs. We have pro fighters, amateurs, and all kind of stuff that we’re training for and getting ready for competitions. 
• Jake Gilbreath: Can I pause you there? I don’t think I asked. Give me your background on how you got into that, because you’ve told me several times and I’m always so impressed. You and I have a lot of parallels in our lives, but our backgrounds are not parallel. Your background is so impressive. So, do you mind sort of telling us kind of how you got to being a Brazilian jiu-jitsu club owner?  
• Mikal Abdullah: I grew up wrestling and fast-forward some years later when I exited honorably from the military. I came back from overseas, and I did the one thing you should not do. I accepted an invitation from some guys to go grapple in a garage and I got hooked to Brazilian jiu-Jitsu very, very quickly. Because of my wrestling pedigree I got invited and started getting invited to camps for pro fighters. I started competing and traveling around the world. Winning, doing all that kind of good stuff. I simultaneously had built and sold a couple other businesses that went well and one that didn’t. And after one business that did okay, I was asking myself what do I really want to do that I care about ultimately? What do I feel like is a good thing in the world? And this was the one thing that had made the most difference for me in my mental health. There’s all the things that you can imagine when a guy gets out of the military and after certain experiences, or honestly anybody who’s dealing with any trauma it doesn’t have to just be the military. The jiu-jitsu and MMA, just the training, not even the competing really helped give me a really healthy personal focused thing to do to improve myself. 
• Anyway, so I figured that one thing had made a huge difference for me and then I started to fall in love with coaching and helping other people have those aha moments. Next thing you know I started to build what I thought a great club would look like and that idea started to grow into helping other people to live their dream like I was. That started opening one club, then two, then acquiring other people’s clubs and expanding to different cities. All while marrying these two ideas of aggressive expansion there and being the best possible dad that I could be to my wonderful daughter and now daughters.  
• Jake Gilbreath: It’s been lots of fun to sort of watch over the years. I guess if you could sort of say one thing, without giving away too much of the secret sauce what would it be? Your secret sauce is how y’all handle customer relations over the years, marketing and all that sort of stuff. Obviously, you’re really good. Y’all have really good coaches, you’re a really good coach, you’re a really skilled fighter. But just like a law practice, that’s part of it. I think I’m a really good lawyer, the lawyers that work for us are really good, I think my law partner is a really good lawyer. But that’s not enough just to say, I’m really good at this. What kind of makes it? Because you know I could be really good at this and just be me, right? With one person, one staff member or something like that and not grow. What’s the secret sauce that’s turned you personally being a really good coach, but to where you can expand it to where it’s a business? A little empire, really.
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah.
• Jake Gilbreath: Texas jiu-jitsu, Brazilian jitsu empire.
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah, I’ve been feeling real fortunate in that. I got to make one quick correction, you are a fantastic lawyer, sir. There’s a reason you’re the man when it comes to making recommendations. Even when I have found out a buddy’s going to get married, I’m like, this is the guy you need to talk to, right? I’m like, just make sure, you know what I mean? There’s a great book called the E-Myth and they have a newer version called E-Myth Revisited. I always thought it was the electronic myth until I read it and I was like, oh, okay. It’s an entrepreneurial myth and the idea is that being a technician is not enough. You have the technician, you have the manager, and you have the entrepreneur. The technician is a person who does the craft and is usually what gets somebody into a business. 
• They’re like, I love doing HVAC, so I’m going to open an HVAC business. Or I’m an attorney, so I’m going to open my own practice, or jiu-jitsu and I’ll open my own club. But the focus for a technician is on the moment right now getting this specific job done. The focus of the manager is coalescing and grabbing all the data to look backwards, and the entrepreneur is focused on moving forward and expansion. And it can be difficult for a lot of people, even skilled people I think, to wear all those hats and to figure all those things out. I think something that you have done really well as I’ve watched you expand, and I think that we have done well on my side as well is really managing those hats. Knowing when to put on the technician hat, knowing when to put on the manager hat and knowing when to put on the entrepreneur hat and expand. That’s one thing I’ve admired about your business, as I admire about ours, which is that idea of expansion. We’re either growing or we’re dying, and I choose to grow. 
• Jake Gilbreath: You’ve sort of told me over the years the systems that y’all have in place. The first one, obviously market, but then two, when people contact or search y’all are on it. Nobody slips through the cracks. I even think about Brazilian jiu-jitsu and you’re on it. Y’all know how to get that customer to sort of research. But then once somebody comes in, be really clear with them as far as how quickly y’all respond, get somebody in the system, and get them set up. I mean that’s the name of the game, right?  
• Mikal Abdullah: It is. Automation is a big part of that, and then also being really clear about our values and who we. Then making sure that part of the communication at every point, and also doing the one thing I think a lot of other people don’t do – which is ask the appropriate question, what are you trying to get out of there? What are your goals? And then just helping people marry their goals with a program that’s going to help them be successful. So, it’s funny, the thing when people talk about marketing usually is top of funnel. Which is the ads and Facebook media, buying, and all that kind of stuff. And I think the real secret sauce is actually the much nerdier, mid-funnel marketing. Which is lead scoring, automations, multiple types of automations, some communications notifications, background automations and stuff like that. That allows the humans to do the human stuff. Just have some really awesome conversations and get somebody going to do the thing they inquired about. 
• Jake Gilbreath: Yeah.
• Mikal Abdullah: You get it.
• Jake Gilbreath: That’s awesome. Well, so talk back to the divorce. Sort of move towards wrapping up, but I want to end with a funny story I’m going to tell in a bit. But back to this divorce, I mean I talk about being a divorced dad, you kind of alluded to it earlier about being a divorced dad. I mean, if you had any advice for somebody going through this stuff, whether it’s a really, really difficult situation like yours, or not as difficult, or in between, what kind of words of wisdom do you have?  
• Mikal Abdullah:  Call Jake Gilbreath. 
• Jake Gilbreath: Thank you. And then personally. What’s your personal advice for people going through this?
• Mikal Abdullah: Well, people going through this, I would say there is life on the other side of this experience. And it can be a great life if you work it correctly. I’ve counseled quite a few buddies and just as I’ve been personally counseled by you, and I think a couple other friends who, not many people knew what I was going through by the way. I kind of kept it to myself as I was running my business and trying to manage the situation.  
• So, the idea that there is hope, there is light on the other side. There is a way for you to be able to fight back and obtain your rights and your relationship with your child is there. You just have to have the right partners, the right mindset. Some guys they go through a divorce and they’re like, I’m never doing that again. Yeah, I counsel those guys too. I’m like, Hey man, just because one business doesn’t work out, doesn’t mean you never open a business again, right? Or business is not for you. It just means that that one didn’t work out. And maybe take those lessons, maybe whiteboard them up, and start another one whenever you feel you’re ready. 
• Jake Gilbreath: That’s a really good way of putting it. I hadn’t thought about that analogy. I don’t think some people are surprised, but as hearing this from a divorce lawyer, I’m a huge believer in marriage. I’m remarried, and that’s been the best decision of my life. I’m a strong believer in a marriage. It has to be the right marriage. Sometimes we try to force things just like a business. We try to force things and it’s just not working. But that doesn’t mean that the system is wrong, the institution of marriage is wrong, or anything like that. It’s just this one didn’t work. I’m just a big believer. It’s not for everybody, I represent families all the time that they’re an intact family unit, whatever that looks like, and they’re not married. That’s great. For me personally, I’m a big believer in marriage. It’s just has to be the right one.    
• I know I’ve told my favorite story about you many times, because it really has to do with my kids. I know you remember this. You and I sort of saw each other some over the pandemic. You’d come over for coffee and stuff like that, but our kids didn’t really get to see each other. Walker, my youngest was born right in the middle of Covid and he hadn’t really met you. Those of you who know Mikal, he’s a big hugger. If you remember the first time you came over to the house after Covid was kind of dying down, Sarah comes downstairs. She’s holding Walker, who’s probably eight or nine months at this time. And let’s be real. How tall are you?  
• Mikal Abdullah: Six-one. Not a tinder, six-one. An actual six.
• Jake Gilbreath: Yeah. So, he’s never met you before, a big dude coming over MMA, Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighter, six one. Let’s be real, he’s a little bit bigger than dad. And Sarah comes down holding Walker, you run right up to Sarah to give her a big old hug and Walker stiff arms you. 
• Mikal Abdullah: Yeah.
• Jake Gilbreath: Get away from my mom. Like there you go. That’s my son, right? Protecting mom.
• Mikal Abdullah: That’s right, good man.
• Jake Gilbreath: Now y’all are buddies. Well, this was great man. You and I say this every single time we see each other, but I so value our friendship and what we’ve been through together. And kind of staying friends and close over the years. I can’t hug you because we’re over the internet right now, but if you were here, I’d give you a big hug just because I love you and I love your family. I know how we met is interesting and it’s just kind of blossomed. This is one of many blessings that’s come out of it, our relationship over the years. 
• Mikal Abdullah: I totally agree. I couldn’t have said it better, brother. I can’t overstate how appreciative of you I am. How much I love you as a brother and out of every tragedy there’s an equal or greater benefit. I think one of those benefits has been our relationship over the years. Yeah man, love the heck out of you and I’d be giving you a big hug right back. So, I guess we’ll have to do that on one of our next walks.  
• Jake Gilbreath: That sounds good. I’ll wrap up the podcast and I’ll give you a virtual hug. So that’s all we’ve got for today. Before I forget though tell us your website and what’s the best way for people to find you. If I’m listening to this going Brazilian jiu-jitsu, that sounds like something I want to look into, how do I find you? 
• Mikal Abdullah: You can go to acesbjj.com or acesjuijitsuclub.com to check out one of our jiu-jitsu clubs. Or you can find me on Instagram at Cerebral BJJ. And anybody who hears this and wants to reach out, feel free to reach out – whether it’s to come train or if they’re going through something themselves. And if you’re listening to this and you feel compelled and you’re going through a situation, reach out to Jake. I literally tell that to everybody I know. He is a genius, ridiculously compassionate, and so, so smart at his craft.  
• Jake Gilbreath: Oh man, I appreciate that. So well, we’ll wrap up with that. And yeah, for our contact – if you’ve liked what you heard today, please leave a review and then of course you can contact us at our firm at waltersgilbreath.com. You can email us at podcast@waltersgilbreath.com. We love feedback that we get, we love suggestions, we love reviews, so feel free to get in touch with us. Thanks everybody for listening, we’ll see y’all in the next episode.
• For information about the topics covered in today’s episode and more, you can visit our website at www.waltersgilbreath.com. Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of For Better, Worse, or Divorce, where we post new episodes every first and third Wednesday. Do you have a topic you want to be discussed or a question for our hosts? Email us podcast@waltersgilbreath.com. Thanks for listening, until next time.